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Apr 28, 2022

Jesse Bobrowski is a Vice President and Partner of Business Development at Calvert Home Mortgage Investment based in Calgary, Alberta.

In this episode we talked about:

  • Jesse’s  Bio & Background
  • Lending in Real Estate-
  • BRRRR Strategy
  • Hard Money Lenders VS Private Lenders
  • Underwriting Deals
  • Interest Rates and Inflation
  • Resources and Lessons Learned

Useful links:
Book: The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable


Jesse  (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time.


Jesse  (23s): Ladies and gentlemen, my name's Jessica galley, and you're listening to working capital their real estate podcast. My special guest today is a another Jesse Jesse . Jesse is the vice president and partner of business development at Calvert home mortgage. We're going to talk today about burst strategies, home mortgages, anything to do with lending. We're going to go into a little bit of Jessie's background and kind of shoot from the hip. So hope you enjoy it, Jesse. How are you doing today?


Jesse B (50s): I'm doing great, Jesse. Thanks for having me along and hello to all your wonderful listeners.


Jesse  (56s): Yeah, thanks for coming on. We were just chatting right before the show. It's a little sunnier here in Toronto. You are joining us from a little bit further west, and you're saying that you, you guys, you guys are snowing right now.


Jesse B (1m 10s): We are actually, it's sunny. Now we sold for the last 24 hours. So yeah, we got about half a foot of snow on the ground,


Jesse  (1m 18s): Right on. So that's out in Calgary. So I think I'm not sure if we've chatted about this, the audience that we have. I always like to say it's a, it's a podcast by a Canadian for all real estate investors, because I think 60% of our listeners are in the us 40% in Canada. So maybe those in the Midwest are getting a little bit of snow as well, this time of year. But for listeners, as we do with all our guests, perhaps you can give us a little bit of a background about how you got into real estate, that journey for you and, and where you're at today and what you're doing.


Jesse B (1m 53s): Yeah, sure. I'd love to give the listener some insight into how I got here. So 16 years ago, I finished my university career. I went to a school in Ontario. I'm from Ontario, actually thunder bay, born and raised and, and finished my, my university career with a degree honors, spatular, commerce, finance, and marketing, and being from thunder bay.


There's not much opportunity for somebody to work in the finance industry. So I was looking for other places to go. This is back in 2007. I had friends in Toronto that had left on our bay. I had friends in, in Calgary and some friends in Vancouver. I grew up fishing, hunting, skiing, sledding, outdoor stuff. And everybody who was in Calgary was not only doing really well professionally, but they were enjoying the outdoors.


So it was an easy fit. I moved to Calgary, worked for a very short period of time as a proprietary trader. And during university, I bar tended at a, at a, at a, at a restaurant and I loved it. So when I moved to Calgary young professional right away, I got a bartending gig, great way to meet people, not a bad way to earn some money and also a great way to meet females at the time.


So, so got into that. And through that, there were these regular clients that came in and I got to know them and they were, they ran a syndicated mortgage lending company. And as I got to know them, they got to know me and about what I did. And, and soon I started doing some consulting work for them and learning about the business. I was super interested in this, this lending business. And this is just when the subprime mortgage crisis started to started to bubble up in the states.


So I was like, Hey, there's, what's going on here. And I very quickly learned that it's a, it's a very transparent way to do business if you're doing it right. It's very, it's, it's, it's very straightforward in terms of you're putting a mortgage on a property. That's your security. So the consulting started being working, part-time working full-time fast, forward eight years. I am looking to become a partner with these people that we couldn't agree to terms on the partnership, unfortunately, or fortunately now, and through that eight years, I met my current partners here because they were very present in the industry.


I they're, they're very thoughtful word business, business owners, and we got to talking and sure enough, I started working for them. And fast forward, six years I'm partner, we're, we're scaling this company in a very meaningful way, helping many, many borrowers and shareholders lending on a short term, real estate, residential throughout Alberta and Ontario.


Jesse  (5m 16s): That's great. And it's, it's great to have you on, because we talk a lot about the traditional lending aspect of real estate, you know, your standard, what you think of as a mortgage or pretty, I guess, typical debt that you'd have on properties. And I think it would a lot of people, more people that get into our industry and more people that have been involved in an owner's field for a longer period of time, realize that there's another aspect of lending on the private side that we don't see very often. So at Calvert, can you talk a little bit about what exactly the team does there, is it focused on private?


Do you do, do you do it all? W what kind of stuff do you typically work? When,


Jesse B (5m 52s): So we are a mortgage investment corporation. We are a lender, that's all do we don't broker deals. We, we go out and we educate the market on here's the solutions that we're providing, and our solutions are very narrowly focused on people that buy, renovate, sell, or buy renovate, and refinance residential properties. Banks don't want that business. It's not profitable for them in the short term.


Not many of our industry members slash competitors want that business for very similar reasons. We've taken time to understand what real estate investors are missing in terms of service, product type, and have created products specifically to cater to them. So all we do is have that narrow focus, really try to kick ass for the borrowers by providing them the service and solutions that they need.


So a lot of times what they'll do is they'll buy a rundown house, renovate it, get it on the market. They'll buy a rundown under performing multiunit property, use our money, renovate it, get rents up, refinance it with a nice conventional loan and build a rental portfolio that way we're in it, just to provide those short-term solutions. And it has, it has been very popular for the market.


We're, we're, we're, we're solving a real problem.


Jesse  (7m 33s): So let's kick off the kind of overview of the burst strategy for those that don't know. Maybe you could just give a high level of what the burst strategy is and what you typically see from the investor side, when, you know, when they're typically engaging you or when they should be engaging you and maybe, you know, talk a little bit about the best practices when it comes to finding debt for these types of, of buying flips or by rent rehab, refinance, repeat, I think I may be not in the right order, but yeah, if you could chat a little bit about that, I think the listeners would get a lot of value.


Jesse B (8m 7s): Sure. So, so there's really, yeah. There's two strategies. We'll focus on Burr. So one is buy, renovate, sell. We do a kind of that. We just, we just define that as flipping and then the other is buy renovate, rent, refinance, repeat. So what they're doing there is, again, they're identifying, we're just, we're just residential. And we like, we, we typically do four doors or less, but we're getting into learning more about really successful practitioners who are into the higher unit stuff.


And we're happy to help them when it makes sense, but what they do is they go out to the market and they identify, again, usually it's properties that are, they haven't been touched in a long time. They've been poorly managed. And in turn, there is a good opportunity to add some, add some renovation touches to increase the value, but also increase the quality of tenant and the quality of rent. So they're using our money because typically these properties are in such disarray that the banks don't even want them.


But also because they're in Sasha's rate, even if the banks do them, they're usually able to increase the value, you know, 20, 30, sometimes 40%. And it makes sense to use are more expensive that for four or 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 months. And then when the project is complete, when they've increased the rents, when they've done their renovations, they can go to a bank lender, especially with the new cm. There's a, there's a CMAC product now and insure product that is specifically for this multifamily residential stuff, where it opens a lot more options on the refinance side.


So they're able to go and, and typically get 80% loan to value. So buying something for 600, you increase the value to, to, by putting in, let's say 150 grand to a mill. Now you're 600 plus one 50, you're exiting with 80%. So 800 grand putting money back into your jeans and being able to do the next project and the project after that. So that works really well for the real estate investor, who wants to build a portfolio and build doors.


It's a lot easier said than done because building a portfolio and building doors takes really great. The business acumen, the devil's in the details always. So the administrative processes is, is critical who you're using as property managers, all that stuff comes into play. But for those that are, that are, that are executing on this strategy, they really like what we're offering in terms of allowing them to get in, do what they need to do, and also get in with little friction.


So, because we know this so well, when we see part of my language of piece of shit house, we're like, oh, show us, show us the show us the, the budget. And then we have, we're unique that we have our own internal evaluators. We hire appraisers that work for us that do the, do the value as complete. And they do that in real time, usually same day. So we're able to provide a real effort, this experience on that ad and say, yeah, here's your end value.


Here's the profit you're making. And because you're making this profit, we want to support you. So we're very, we're lower docs, but because we really understand the business, we're not saying, oh, what's going on with, with this flooring? What about how is somebody ever going to live here? No, we did it. Thanks for the budget. We know what you're doing. We may ask some clarifying questions, but typically, because we're real estate investors ourselves, I've been doing this for literally 30 years and billions of dollars and thousands of mortgages. We've seen it all and we have the expertise to help the borrower.


Jesse  (12m 13s): Fair enough. So I just want to unpack a little bit about that. So for, for any listeners in the U S CMHC Canadian mortgage housing corporation, you're Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac would be your agency debt, very similar to what we use here. Now, I guess the 80% LTV on a lot of these, I guess it's like a lot of what we do now. It's really the, the, the loan to value. Oftentimes isn't the limiting factor these days, that's usually the debt service coverage, right? Yeah. So I'm curious the, well, number one, I, I question question about the product that you're mentioning, are you mentioning short-term debt and then you eventually do long-term with CMHC or is the short term product with agency debt?


Jesse B (12m 54s): No, so we're so, so the short-term product is Calvert's money. We're lending that the exit with, with, with, with a CMHC approved lender yes. Is the borrower goes and figures that out. And typically they figure it out through a really strong mortgage broker. Like that's, when we're doing the loan, that's already part of the plan we've reviewed, we've done our analysis on, and by the way, we have a Burr analyzer. That's about to be released to the market where we've done our analysis on the debt service coverage, where we're, we're clear on what the rent should be.


And in turn, the boar is really clear on provided. I execute, provided I do this. I'm going to hit what's needed for the exit. And that's really important for Burr, like a lot of, a lot of new or less sophisticated borrowers will say, yeah, I'm going to burn it. Okay. Explain us the exit. Hey, you know, it doesn't debt service, you know, your credit is really poor. You're not a great covenant. I don't think you're bankable. And, and they haven't thought of this.


So again, because of our experience, we're asking every question and making sure that they can exit. So sometimes what they think is a Burr will say, no, you should really plan on this being a flip and, and run your numbers is if it's a flip and maybe you get, maybe you prove us wrong and you can Brit, but make sure that this is a viable project with your most likely scenario.


Jesse  (14m 26s): Yeah, no, that makes sense. And for, I think most listeners would know, but just for the DSCR debt service coverage ratio, that would be your net operating income over your divided, by the, the amount you have to pay to service your debt. So if you have $120,000 NOI, a hundred thousand dollars, your annual mortgage payments, you got a 1.2 is the, typically the way lenders will look at that. So I guess one of the distinctions that we've people on the show before that our hard money lenders, you hear the terms hard money lender, private lender, kind of thrown, thrown around and in conjunction with each other.


Can you distinguish if at all, between hard money lenders and private lenders?


Jesse B (15m 8s): Yeah. So the way that we're, we're a mortgage investment corporation. So we operate a fund. And within that fund, we have certain rules that we have to adhere to through securities regulators, through the various real estate regulators, through tax, through our auditors, through our board of directors, we borrow money from banks, they put rules on us. So we're a very structured lender.


We like to refer to ourselves as an alternative mortgage lender. So by alternative, there would be in terms of, in terms of, I usually go by size, there would be, there would be your tier one banks. Then there would be your, your model lines of credit unions. And those are all lending money out at prime minus right now. And then you have your B lenders. The lenders are like your, your whole Mack, your home equity banks, your, your home trusts.


And they're basically sending on a prime plus. And then there's alternative lenders. That's where we would fit in where, where we're, we're still structured. Well-governed companies that have to adhere to that governance. And then there's true privates. There's true hard money lenders that are, that are lending their own money, that, that can make their own rules.


Jesse  (16m 33s): This is the uncle that does lending that it seems to work from home. You don't really know what he does


Jesse B (16m 38s): Exactly, exactly. Or like there's some, you know, some family offices that let's say the families that are worth 500 mill, they've taken a hundred mill. And they said, we're going to lend this money out on our own. And they do whatever they want. Yeah. So that would be, to me, that's the distinction of, of alternative versus private. So true, private, hard money. All we don't need docs, we'll just look at the property and lend on it. Usually that's more expensive. Usually that comes with big renewal fees and big fees.


We're, we're more of, of, of, of a, of a alternative lender just below B. So that's kind of the distinction and yes, a lot of your listeners in the states, they refer to it as hard money lenders. We, we have a lot of flexibility that a hard money lender does, but we're more consistent. The money's always there. We get here to what we say. We have, you know, we have a 40 person organization that is behind all of this Making decision from my couch.


Jesse  (17m 42s): Yeah. That makes sense. I think the connotation with heart is that, you know, you're meeting on a park bench and somebody is handing you a duffel bag of cash, which is not the case. I mean, typically, but definitely with, with your company, it sounds like it is more of a structured kind of investment. Now I want to talk about the state of the market, because I think it's pretty topical right now where interest rates are at inflation rates, some of the latest hikes, but before we get there, when somebody is coming to you to do flips or to do a burst strategy, what would you say to them to make sure that they are, they are following the right guidelines to make the process as seamless as possible.


And to be able to get to identify properties that are going to work with, with a team like yours.


Jesse B (18m 26s): So the, the primary, the primary piece of advice I give general is, is own the process. This is your, this is a business you're putting your money at risk. It's amazing how many, how few people understand the comparables have asked their realtor, you know, are you just cherry pick like, like really know their numbers really know their budget, really know who they're dealing with in terms of lawyers, realtors, mortgage, brokers, us as a lender, like this is an entrepreneurial endeavor.


And to be a successful entrepreneur, you need to put your, your, your mind, heart and soul into it. And you can't just watch HGTV, call a realtor, slap a deal together. And it works out now in fairness, the, the, the, the craziness that has been the Ontario and BC market, a lot of people, this has worked for them for years, being from Alberta, where we see prices, you know, peaks and valleys every six years, basically the professionals are in it for years and years and years, the speculators are out.


So at some point in time, and we'll get into, you know, kind of what, what, what we're predicting for the market. At some point in time, there will be prices will go down how meaningful they go down, we'll find out. But, but the overall piece of advice that I have is own the process. Understand your numbers, come prepared, understand who your, who you're partnering with, and you don't have to know it all right off the bat. Like you, you still have to take action, but as you're taking action, continue to learn.


Don't just say, oh, my realtor has gotten this, like, learn from your realtor, learn from your mortgage broker, learn from your lender, learn from your contractor. Because the more of that I'll call it institutional knowledge. You can build the more successful you'll be the most successful clients that we are fortunate enough to work with. Are those people that know everything. They may, they may never swung a hammer, but they know every single cost. They know their measurements inside and out. They probably don't have a law degree, but they can challenge their lawyer and me on certain closets.


Those are the people that are going to kick ass.


Jesse  (20m 51s): Awesome. So in terms of the, the actual distinction between, you mentioned it before a four unit and below five and five unit and above, which we typically classify, even though it's residential, multi, residential, or commercial, when somebody's looking to underwrite, or when somebody is coming to you to underwrite the deal, you mentioned the fact that you have flexibility. Does that mean that you guys are going to be more open on those smaller deals to look at the asset specific rather than just the individual? Because I know one of the challenges or one of the, put it put another way.


One of the benefits of doing apartment buildings, which is what my partners and I do, is that it really is less about us. And it's more about the asset. And if you can make the numbers work on the asset, you can get approvals and debt much easier. Whereas if it's single family houses or two, three units at a certain point, people seem to tap out in terms of the amount of debt they get. So how does that underwriting process look like for you? If it is more individual specific, more asset or a blend of the two,


Jesse B (21m 53s): When we're underwriting a flipper bird deal, the bulk of our underwriting is based off of profitability. If they're bringing us a profitable deal and they can, they can execute on that profitable deal. We're likely in, so we're not digging, we're not relying on the covenant. So if it's in a, if it's, if it's a good property in, in, in, in, in a location that we want to do business in which basically is any urban center or surrounding area, and they're making money and they show us that, like, let's say, let's just use a quick example.


Let's say, they're bringing us about a property that they're purchasing for 500 grand and their renovation is 50. And when it's done, it's worth six 50, and they're going to, they're going to be able to ex execute their renovations in a 60 day time period. So they're making money. We want him, we can do that deal, you know, Cheerio with as little as $20,000 down so we can lend them four 80 plus the feeds. It's always a 2% fee and, and 2% and four 80 is what is that $909,600.


So we can lend them 480,000 plus the 9,600. So essentially $490,000 on a $500,000 purchase. Let's say that let's say two to cover the renovation costs. Plus our payments is going to be around 75 grand for the, for the duration of the loan. They need to show us that they have 75 grand, 75 grand could be cash lines of credit credit cards, show us that you have the money. And based off that, we're in.


Hmm. You could, you could show, you can show almost, you can show a zero in a way you can, you can have,


Jesse  (23m 42s): We receive notice of assessment for those, for those wondering yeah.


Jesse B (23m 46s): Income, you can choose zero tax return.


Jesse  (23m 49s): Okay. Yeah,


Jesse B (23m 51s): You can have relative, like if you're totally delinquent on credit and you've never paid a bill, we're not, we don't want to do business with you, but if you have bruised credit, like what we define as Bruce credit is credit below 600, as long as there's rationale. And it's not like you're, you have $200,000 worth of outstanding credit consumer debt that that is maxed out. We probably want it. We're going to want to avoid that. But Bruce credit, we're fine to deal with. So we're underwriting the project. Each deal that we look at is an individual business opportunity.


And as long as you can prove to us that you have the cash to do it and it's profitable. And the means to do it. Like if you, if, when we look at your budget, we have some questions. Who's doing the work I am. Okay. What's your experience with it looks like you're doing cabinetry. What's your experience with cabinetry? I haven't been, well, you might want to think about hiring that out. So as long as you prove to us, and again, we have a lot of expertise in this that you can execute we're in.


Jesse  (24m 50s): Got it. So let's move a little bit to the macro picture right now. Interest rates have gone up over the last, last few months over this. I mean, since, since the beginning of the year in Canada, in the states, we're starting to see buyers actually start making decisions for a long time. They weren't really impacting their decisions, which is kind of amazing for, for quite some time. How are you looking at the market right now in terms of a risk standpoint?


And also, do you see this, you know, put you on the spot with the crystal ball, what do you see for the future as it pertains to the lending industry?


Jesse B (25m 30s): So we see interest rates, firstly, continuing to rise. We have, we have an inflation problem that we had it two years or a year and a half ago, but we were, a lot of people were insisting. It was transitory. All inflation is transitory. It just depends on when and what measures need to be taken. Is it, is it transitory within a year or do we have a ten-year issue? So anyhow, we think rate, we, I believe rates will continue to increase probably another 50 bips next month, at least what the market's pricing in.


And then 25 basis points thereafter for the foreseeable future that increase will impact affordability. A lot of people are already stretched with their debt, with their debt servicing that will in turn impact the market. Some people may bow to the market, which is not a bad thing because right now the, for the most part Canadian real estate is too hot. It's not sustainable. So will prices go down, maybe, especially in some markets where there already is affordability issues.


Like we're seeing a lot of, a lot of markets in Ontario where, where you have relatively low wage wages versus the price of the homes. So there's already an affordability issue there. We don't think they'll go down in a big way. And the big stop gap to that is Canadians, want single family, residential housing. And right now there just isn't sufficient supply to, to make up for that demand.


You have 400,000 immigrants coming into Canada for the next every year for the next five years. Canada does really good job at bringing in economic immigrants. So people that have capital and are ready to hit the ground running with employment, most immigrants value real estate, most immigrants want single family housing. So we're where I believe we have a supply issue that is always, is at least for the foreseeable issue is just going to really backstop a big slide in real estate values.


So what, what I anticipate at least as a bit of a reset, you know, we won't see massive appreciation. We might see slight downward pressure, but what I love in terms of how Calvert has been in business for so long, we've S we've essentially only been lending in, in Ontario for two years prior to that, it was only Alberta. And in Alberta, we've managed through those peaks and valleys. So up into 2021, we had a, a market going down 2, 3, 4, 5% a year, every year for five years.


So we're ready to we're, we're ready to manage through it and help our clients manage through it and with what our clients do in terms of flipping single family, residential housing stock. We believe that when the market turns, there'll be more opportunities for our buyer right now, it's hard for them to find really good value because you have a mom and pop buyer, which typically they don't want anything to do with a piece of shit house. Now they're saying, ah, you know, why don't we buy this? We could do our own renovations in a, in a, in a balanced market where you have three months supply, which I don't know when the last time many Ontario markets have seen that your buyer's not going to buy that stuff.


Yup. So we, we anticipate slowdown of, of, of real estate appreciation, maybe even, maybe even in some markets, a bit of a downturn, but we believe that that fundamental supply issue will backstop a big downturn.


Jesse  (29m 22s): Fair enough. And yeah, I think similar outlook on, on my end as well. I think we've, we've had a really good run for a long time in real estate. And you know, the idea of appreciation 15, 20, 20 5% annually is just, yeah, not a sustainable, not a sustainable business. So I think our reset for a lot of investors would be welcome with open arms and especially from an affordability point of view. But I think really the crux of it, I completely agree with you on the supply side.


And it kind of just frustrates me on the policy level that we try so many things and we don't look at the supply side that if you want affordable housing, you need supply. That's just the bottom line you have to, you can't, you can't restrict supply, but yeah, I mean, we'll see how things go. I, you know, from, from the investor, that's looking to, you know, potentially work with short-term debt. Is there anything that you would advise on that end when it comes to the idea of making sure that when you do exit that short-term debt say it's 12 months at 10 months at whatever it is that you're making sure that you're going to be able to get permanent permanent capital permanent debt for the project that you're working on?


Jesse B (30m 34s): Yeah, certainly no, certainly engage your bankers if you have bankers, but even if you have bankers engage in amaz engage a mortgage broker who has done this because they know all the bankers. So you'll want to make sure from the onset that, you know, yes, this is refinanceable, here's, who's likely to do it. Here's what the cost is likely to be. And we build that. And again, we talk about the Burr analyzer that we're going to be launching.


We're going, that's going to be a tool that you can use to take to your banks, preemptively like the right banks and the right brokers are clamoring for your business. So go out and find them, align yourself with them, give them the plan and in turn, create an extremely high likelihood that, that exits there. You cannot, we won't allow you to go into a project and not make sure it's there. You may, you know, especially the newer people may not be prepared to do that extra step and that extra homework, but it's, it's a requirement.


So align yourself with the right professionals, bankers, mortgage brokers. And as they're doing the work for you, learn from them, what does the B what is the bank looking for? Why is this particular issue with this property posing an issue? Is it zoning? Is it how many units is it location? You know, cause they're, every bank looks at these deals differently and, and sees they're the w the, the, the warts and the rainbows differently. So take time and understand what, what they're looking for, because then that'll influence the next project.


Could you go into,


Jesse  (32m 14s): Got it. All right. We will put links up where people can reach it. And I'll just ask you in a second, but before we do, we have four questions. We ask every guest before we, we get off. So kind of rapid fire here.


Jesse B (32m 27s): Sounds good.


Jesse  (32m 28s): Okay. What's something that, you know, now in your career, it could be a mortgages real estate and business that you wish you knew when you started in the business.


Jesse B (32m 38s): I, now that success is the combination of work ethic and time. And before I was just hoping it was purely work ethic, but man, does it take a lot of time to learn stack those wins, stack those relationships, bring the best people and knowledge around you to succeed. So time plus work ethic, not just work ethic.


Jesse  (33m 7s): Perfect. What's a resource or book that you find yourself recently recommending to a, to others.


Jesse B (33m 15s): So as we're scaling this, this business, a lot of, a lot of organizational management matters is where I'm focused on leadership, mentorship, coaching five dysfunctions of a team that I read a few months ago has been amazing. Lensioni is the author's last name. He's done a few really good organizational business books. So if you're, if you're a leader, it can relate to personal matters.


Relationships, team matters, relationships, mentorship stuff. So five dysfunctions of a team is what I've been recommending a lot lately. And it's mostly because of where I'm at professionally, the things I'm going through,


Jesse  (34m 0s): What would you tell a young individual that's trying to get into our business, and that can be on the mortgage side or just the real estate investing business in general,


Jesse B (34m 12s): Anything in the real estate industry is just putting yourself in positions to succeed. You're not going to hit the home run day one. You're probably going to be an admin, an analyst, a cold caller, whatever it takes, but make sure you're surrounding yourself. Make sure you're entering an organization or surrounding yourself with somebody that you believe in trust. And, and you've researched. Don't just jump into bed with antibody, be selective, but also be willing to, as they say you Chet, like if, if you're going to work for the best, they probably don't have a, the, the, the, a super high paying big responsibility job for you.


You got to prove that you deserve those opportunities.


Jesse  (35m 1s): Hey, at 33, I'm still eating shit today. And a new title should be a, vice-president cool to call her. Cause at the end of the day, it's, we're still doing outreach. We're still connecting whether you want to buy, find off market deals. That call is typically not lined up, lined up for you. So that's great advice. Last question. First car, make and model


Jesse B (35m 21s): First car making model. I had a, again, thunder bay, you know, kinda rednecky town. I had a shed silver auto halftime keen 88, 2 wheel drive tires to this thing was a death trap. And we would lay, we w w we were in the middle of nowhere. So the nearest, the nearest big city to us with Minneapolis St. Paul, I remember bombing down in, in snow storms when I was 17 years old with my buddies with just enough money to get down and scalp a ticket to the Minnesota Vikings game.


And like, they're telling me to go faster and I'm like, guys, if I go faster, we're going to fly up the road with this Pete. Like this thing was a death trap and 500, or I guess it would be 600 kilometers there. 600 kilometers back somehow we made it


Jesse  (36m 8s): Awesome. Yeah. That is just a large piece of steel. What would you w we have a lot of colleagues that are in thunder bay. What would be the, the American equivalent of thunder bay?


Jesse B (36m 20s): Yeah. American equivalent of thunder bay. It's like, I don't know what, what, what town of plenary is a population of 120,000? The nearest cities to that is to St. Marie to the east, which is 800 kilometers. So, so for Americans, that's 600 miles. Then the apples St. Paul to the south, which is 400 miles Winnipeg to the west, which is 600 miles.


Like in terms of geography, there's nothing similar.


Jesse  (36m 54s): Yeah. I mean, culturally, I feel like a, I don't know if there'd be something in, in, in Michigan or if it would be, I don't know. It's like, it's kind of a mix of different, different cultures in thunder bay, but it's definitely,


Jesse B (37m 7s): Yeah. We spent a lot of time. So down. So south at thunder bay, there's a Duluth aloof Minnesota. Now Duluth is kind of a, for the American listeners. Duluth is a more refined prettier version of thunder bay. So imagine more blue color, less picturesque version. That's the underbanked.


Jesse  (37m 31s): Yeah. You know, miss soda. That makes sense. If Fargo was filmed in Canada, which maybe, maybe it was thunder bay would probably be a good, a good spot.


Jesse B (37m 39s): Yeah. Yeah. Fargo is a really good equivalent.


Jesse  (37m 42s): All right. Well, for people to reach out or connect with you, Jesse what's, where can we send them? We'll put the, we'll put everything we talked about in the show notes in any of the links, but yeah. Just let the listeners know and we'll put that up there.


Jesse B (37m 54s): Yeah. So we have a great website with, with all the tools that, that a real estate investor would need in terms of, for flip and Britain Burr So Calvert, Google cower, home mortgage take you to our website. My contact information is there. I'm happy to, to discuss anything. I have an amazing team of underwriters and business development, people that can, that can point you in whatever direction needed. We also have a really great Instagram account ICU due to Jessie.


I follow you personally, but our Instagram account is just to provide knowledge to real estate investors. So we're doing tips for flips economic reports. We're, we're releasing tools. We've just written. We've just wrote a white paper on the, on the benefits to the, the macro economy on real estate investing. So please follow us on Instagram at Calvert home mortgage.


Jesse  (38m 51s): My guest today has been Jesse Jesse. Thanks for being part of working capital.


Jesse B (38m 57s): Thank you.


Jesse  (39m 5s): Thank you so much for listening to working capital the real estate podcast. I'm your host, Jesse, for galley. If you liked the episode, head on to iTunes and leave us a five star review and share on social media, it really helps us out. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me on Instagram, Jesse for galley, F R a G a L E, have a good one take care.