Jul 15, 2022
Mark Reisman is a Founder and CEO at Empower Living Management and Chief of Acquisitions & Asset Management at Touzi Capital.
In this episode we talked about:
Useful links:
Senior Living Foresight https://www.youtube.com/c/seniorlivingforesight
The National Investment Center for Seniors Housing & Care (NIC) https://www.nic.org
American Seniors Housing Association (ASHA) https://www.ashaliving.org
Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-reisman/
Transcription:
Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name is Jesper galley. And on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Jesper galley and you're listening to working capital the real estate podcast. My guest today is mark Riesman. He is the founder and CEO of in power living.
He is also the chief of acquisitions and asset management for Tuesday. Capital mark. How's your day going today?
Mark (38s): Going well, glad to be here.
Jesse (39s): Well, thanks again for joining, joining us today. I think listeners will get a lot of value. It's kind of hearing your background and story in the industry and where you specialize, but like we do with all of our guests before we kick it off, maybe you could give us a little bit of a background on your path in real estate where you got started and how that journey has been.
Mark (1m 2s): Yeah, it sounds good. I, I grew up in Los Angeles, went to school at UC Santa Barbara and we didn't have too many practical majors there for business. So my path was to go the emphasis in accounting from the biz econ major and got the main recruiters out of that program were a big four accounting firms. So from that I went into, I worked at PricewaterhouseCoopers for about five years plus some internships and, you know, spent a lot of time in accounting and finance have always had the entrepreneurial mindset though.
You know, I on real estate, after living with my parents for a couple of years to save up, I did buy a condo and rented out a couple of those bedrooms. And then, you know, from there just acquire more. So, you know, they had a house that I rented to. Students had some fourplexes, couple of partners in those here in Dallas, but Pricewaterhouse Coopers did bring me out here to, to Dallas, Texas. And I've been here for that about 16 years, a long time during that time again, you know, a lot of accounting and finance was controller of a restaurant fry franchising company.
Also I owned, well, I started doing triathlon and it's kind of spiraled out of control before you knew it. I owned the DFW tri club. And so I bring that up because one of my, my club member slash friends was in the club and we're on a triathlon trip. And I was pretty, pretty bored out of my mind at again, an accounting controller and, you know, with my real estate background, he was the CEO of a property management company for senior living.
And so he needed someone with my skillset and I was ready for something new. So I joined, we had 25 properties at the time, including independent living assisted living memory care, and then a couple of multifamily. And so, yeah, it was, it was a lot of fun time, a ton of learning going on during that time, especially, you know, the first eight months I got my legs under me, my friend ended up leaving to focus on his asset management business.
There's a little bit overlap with our clients. So I, I failed in the role as CEO CFO, a few months later, we lost our COO. And so rather than just hire someone quickly as the COO, despite my limited senior living background, I was the interim COO for about a year till we figured out what we needed out of that position and hired for it. So again, you know, running assisted living and memory care at that point, relied heavily on a really great team, you know, again kind of learning very collaborative team focused, but you know, ultimately I had to move on.
So, you know, summer of July, 2020, I left, I started to try and acquire my own communities and build it from the ground up. And so a couple of things happened there. One was, I Googled masters in senior living and I found a program at USC through their Leonard Davis school of gerontology, got to take my time getting that.
So a couple of, you know, just this last may, I got my master's in senior living hospitality. They had a neat program with Cornell to get the certificate in hospitality from Cornell as well. And then, you know, on the acquisition side I was chasing some deals. I did partner up with an Tang at Toesy capital and he, you know, we were going to partner on some deals, nothing ended up working out, but when I did have something ready to go, that did work out Toesy was very busy at a time with Bitcoin mining, oil and gas and some other, you know, very interesting deals at the time.
So, you know, I, he, he did invite me to be his chief of acquisitions and asset management to help with his large multifamily portfolio, some senior living that Toesy has as well. But for this deal here in a suburb of Atlanta, you know, I, it's still a good deal. I ended up bringing in another partner Romena with aspire ventures and yeah, great.
Yeah. You know, we're off to a couple of a couple months in the books here and after the fund start,
Jesse (6m 22s): That's great. So a couple things there, the, the first one, the senior living aspect, you know, it's kinda, it's I always look at it as the different sub categories of multifamily. What was that like getting into just that world, the senior living real estate? How, how was it different than, you know, compared to multi-family deals that you've done? I'm sure there's, there's nuances there that, that you don't think about when you're just doing straight up multifamily or, you know, either other asset classes where you're not really, there's no operating business aspect to them.
Mark (6m 59s): Yeah. Great question. And multifamily. I love multifamily. Okay. I love senior living there. They're great. And they they're there parts about each of those that I think they can learn from each other. And so, you know, when, when there are opportunities to blend them, we jump at it. So for, for multi-family, you know, if you're doing value, add the business plan is typically, you know, walk in, spend some CapEx, do some energy efficiency, upgrades, you know, maybe there's some kind of, you know, marketing or management, but you know, there there's maybe five or so people working there.
So it's not a big operations. It is real estate with some know-how. And so, you know, when that, when you then think about senior living, it is a very, you know, operations heavy it's, it's a business. You might have some of what I just mentioned from what my family, but more often than not the opportunity lies in the operation side. So in order to, you know, have a successful operations or investment in this case, you need to have really great partners who really know what they're doing.
And it, you know, I think I, I got pretty lucky the way that I got in, cause I kind of stepped into this, you know, great group of folks that I didn't have to, you know, I, I don't know. Yeah. I'm not the person that is going to be a caregiver. It's not in my nature, but my nature is how can I support my team so that they can self-actualize and when they self-actualize, that is reflect, you know, that rubs off on, on the residents and, you know, we, we have a better chance of them self-actualize so, and that that's really my place.
How can I best support the team who, you know, the boots on the ground or the folks supporting them.
Jesse (9m 8s): And in terms of the actual process on the acquisition side, is there a different approach that's taken? Cause it's, it's more of a, or somewhat similar to a private equity deal as opposed to a real estate deal, you know, what are the, some of the major differences that you find when you're, when you were acquiring? Cause I could imagine, you know, there's at least two things that you're looking at, you're looking at the real estate investment, but you're also looking at the operating business, you know how you're going to continue that with you, whether there's an operator there, if you could talk a little bit to that.
Mark (9m 40s): Yeah. So everything that you do for multifamily, you do for a senior living and then you, you know, so all the comp, the, the comp comparisons, the inspections all the same, you do add more inspections, there's a lot deeper audits, you know, residents records and it, you know, so, so th so there's more, and then, you know, from w with my accounting and finance background, you know, I, I usually start with the spreadsheet and then, you know, do things make sense?
Based off the hundreds of deals, I've looked at different areas, parts of the country, you know, is there room to increase rent? What do we have to do to increase those rents? So, so a piece of that, again, is similar to multifamily, but since there's only a handful of senior living communities in a five, 10 mile radius, you can kind of pinpoint, you know, can a market support, you know, the feasibility of, of what we're trying to do here.
The, again, going back to the spreadsheet, things have been crazy lately with, with labor costs. And so, you know, for independent living or the subsets of active adults, senior apartments, there's not a huge operations component. It is very similar to multifamily. You get to change the marketing. Maybe there's some extra activities. Those aren't very expensive, but when you start to add food for first, he add food.
So in some independent living may not have the some may. So maybe you're talking an extra, you know, five to seven people. When you had food, how many meals a day are you going to provide some independent living? Maybe it's, maybe it's just continental breakfast. That's not it, a large operations maybe have that plus one meal a day, or maybe have three meals a day, seven days a week. So there's, there's a spectrum there when you get to assisted living and memory care.
Yeah. You have, you know, three meals a day snacks, you know, seven days a week. And then with the assisted living and memory care, you add in the care or wellness component. So, you know, maybe we, we like, we, we usually have a registered nurse and RN in charge of that, that department and that you don't always need it. And then you have care team supporting those efforts, the ratio that you have for assisted living.
We typically underwrite 12 and a half residents for one caregiver for assisted living. And the memory care is usually about eight to one. Ultimately you need to provide a safe environment for them to, you know, for people to leave. So if you have a lot of people who are what we call high acuity and need a lot of extra support, maybe those re ratios shrink a little bit, but then you can also potentially charge more for, for those extra services.
So from a marketing perspective, some communities will have a all inclusive rent. So those rents are a little higher. Yup. Others charge a level of care. And so if you don't need much, you're not paying as much. If you need a lot, you pay a lot. And that's, I like that the most, I think that's fair for, you know, for everyone, if, if you're just charging for what you use, but you see it on.
Jesse (13m 35s): Yeah. That makes sense. And in terms of the management aspect of it, you know, when you go to buy multifamily, you know, depending on the philosophy of the investor, you could assume the current property management, you might have vertically integrated multi management within your firm. You might outsource it. Is it somewhat similar on the assisted living or senior living side of things, or is that something where you see majority of it's already in house and, you know, the purchaser would have those capabilities?
Mark (14m 8s): Yeah. I think it's similar to multifamily where, I mean, if it depends on the purchaser, so if you have a great operating team already in house, or that you work with, that you partner with, you know, even if you acquire a great operations, you may still want your people in there versus other purchasers who don't, and they, you know, if you want to get into market, or if you're already in a market, you don't make your partner, you know, then you can acquire that, that building or community take that the operator and then kitchen to go manage your other stuff.
So, yeah, the possibilities are similar.
Jesse (14m 54s): So in terms of the, the multi-family side of things, or I guess you, you could, you can answer this on both on both asset classes or, or, you know, subcategories, the underwriting process that you have done, or you do for properties that you're looking to purchase a lot has changed in the last 12 to 24 months. Has your underwriting change, you know, within the last year, and if so, what aspects of the underwriting?
Mark (15m 22s): Yeah, it's, it's getting much, much more difficult to get bills to pencil. Labor is, is the big, the big one for assisted living memory care. And then, you know, with interest rates creeping up, it, it is getting tough to underwrite stuff. I have quite a bit in the pipeline and I'm just not jumping on, on things right now. Like, you know, previously, so, you know, operating margins are, are key because you can get deals to have a return, but then, you know, if, if you're only doing a 20% or less operating margin there that comes with the higher risk.
Yeah. So previously before the pandemic, when I, when I was looking at a mix, you know, AOL memory care product type, I would aim for about a 35% operating margin, you know, 30% is still acceptable, but these days it is hard to get to 25%. You know, I, I do think, you know, ultimately with inflation, yeah, costs are going up, but we're also able to raise rents, but you can't do it right away.
You have to ease into it. You have to, you know, really create a story behind it. And so, you know, being, being sensitive to folks who might be on a, an income that, you know, it, it's not going to change much right now, if, if social security is increasing, like it is these days, I think it was just 5.9% recently with their Cola adjustment. You know, that that's something that I think is fair to pass on because we're now spending more to, you know, bring the people into, to help provide the care.
So, but it's, it's a open conversation with the folks that, you know, you're, you're, you're renting with you
Jesse (17m 31s): And has the structure on the debt side, has that on the debt side, has that changed in, you know, in light of the fact that, like you mentioned, there is quite a bit more inflation. The question of whether it's something that persists, I guess, is a somewhat of an open question, but yeah. On the debt structure side has, has your view on debt change given the environment that we're currently in?
Mark (17m 57s): So I haven't, so we closed on our AOL memory care community May 2nd. I don't have another example that is ready to pitch and chase. So I have seen a handful of multifamily, and I know that, you know, lenders are coming down on their LTV. You know, obviously like if, if you want a rate cap, those are th the, the cost of that is, is very expensive, you know, deal that we just closed on multiple 319 units in, in Houston multifamily.
We had the lender retrade us the night before lowering our loan amount by 3.3 million. And, you know, the w we did have an interest reserve from them. We bought a two year rate cap, and then instead of the third year rate cap, we just put cash in the bank for a reserve. So, you know, it's still the, the deal is still pencil. And luckily we're able to still close on that deal, but it was, it was a challenge.
Jesse (19m 15s): Yeah. I know it would be somewhat different for markets like I'm, I'm in, you know, either Toronto, Vancouver, New York, San Francisco, I, of these really expensive markets, they here operating margin 25, 30%, I guess, if you could kind of spin that a little bit more on the side. I oftentimes we'll S we'll think of it. At least the metric we use oftentimes is, is our expense ratio. You know, w what portion of, of our income is going to expenses, but we're, I mean, 25, 30%, that would be a very big challenge to find.
Are you finding that on the multifamily side, that your expense ratios or your
Mark (19m 54s): Yeah, no multifamily, you know, you're 50%,
Jesse (19m 57s): 2%. Yeah.
Mark (19m 59s): And even independent living still, if it's 150 unit independently, you know, we're still shooting for that, you know, 50% range, you know, can we go to 45% sure. But, you know, for as, as heavy as operations are now, you're still pumping out a great NOI if things are going according to the business plan and, you know, but, but then the cap rates are different, right? For the lower, for the lower operating margin, the cap rate increases because your risk is higher.
And so, you know, for multifamily, if you're running underwriting for 4%, 5%, you know, active adult, you're looking at 5%, generally, this is general writing. It's different for every market or unique situation for each building, but independent living, you know, maybe it's 6%, if you're adding in, you know, extra activities of a van or bus to transport people, a meal for assisted living rule of thumb is generally been about 7%, you know, can you go lower?
Sure. Can, you know, average, I'd say a seven memory care, seven to 8%, and then skilled nursing is a complete anything that I said today previously excluded skilled nursing. Yeah. But you know, those cap rates, you know, maybe it's 10 to 12%.
Jesse (21m 34s): Yeah. You're going to need that return. So in terms of the, you know, the, the environment is the environment. I mean, it's really the, there's certain things that we can de-risk and some things we can eliminate others, we just have to adjust to, or mitigate, or, or try to, in terms of the way that you're looking at the next year or two years without having a crystal ball, obviously, you know, what, what is your general view of this, the state that we're heading in from a real estate perspective, you alluded a little bit to, to rental increases, you know, over the longer term, anything else that you think that is coming down the pike for us?
Mark (22m 14s): Yeah. I'm not, I'm not gonna attempt to, to, to forecast that publicly. I will say that, you know, if you have in senior living, if you have, you know, good operating team and you stick to the fundamentals that, you know, if there is a downturn, you know, it's gonna, it's gonna make it very difficult for people without good operations to survive. And that'll give us more opportunity, you know, multifamily, I mean, you know, things that we'll be looking at our collection rates, you know, it's, I think it's been a big issue for, for multifamily, especially if you're in C class or B senior living.
I think, you know, there, I like to say senior living is recession resilient. It's not necessarily recession proof, right? You're not completely missing the exposure because if someone is investigating the stock market and the stock market crashes, you know, there goes their savings. If housing prices crash and now, you know, someone who's, who's retired and looking to move in was relying on the equity in their house.
Now there's less available or none. If there's an adult child, he's supporting the parents and they lose their job. Okay. So, but you do have, you know, it's not all doom and gloom because a lot of those folks, hopefully they're invested in something more conservative. There is some kind of savings, or, you know, a pension that is immune to those types of drops. And so, you know, do we fare better than multi-family in the downturn?
I think so. It's, I've seen data in the past that, you know, we, we do perform better. Will that continue to be the case? I hope so. We'll see.
Jesse (24m 15s): Yeah. I mean, you, you raise a good point with the, the aspect of rent that, you know, all things being equal, the asset asset prices or inf asset, excuse me, price level, rising inflation should download into rental rates being higher, you know, so that typically if I hesitate to use the word hedge, but if you look at real estate as partially hedging, or at least being like you said, resilient or resistant to inflation, it's that downloading of, of rent to our customers or our, you know, our tenants.
And on that note, on the asset price side of things, I think we've all regardless of the market, you're in, we've seen some crazy prices for real estate cap rates getting compressed and compressed and compressed. What I see in our market is owners vendors. Basically they haven't, there's still a big disconnect between where they think the valuation is of their properties and what the market's willing to pay. Is that what you're seeing and, and w you know, what, what do you think is the outcome of that?
Do you think that owners would, you know, eventually they, they see the tea leaves and they, they have to adjust, or you think there's just going to be a lot of vendors that are holding properties.
Mark (25m 30s): It's going to be all of the above. You know, I there's owners today who are now lowering prices or lowering expectations, you know, when we got Retraded on the multifamily, the, the seller worked with us on that. And so, you know, then we didn't ask for a hundred percent of the difference, but, you know, it is a shared risk. And so, you know, it depends on the tolerance of the individual sellers for each, each project, whether it's multifamily or senior.
Jesse (26m 4s): And is there a, a geo geographic area that you're looking to invest, or are you, are you, are you just picking deals based on, on the fundamentals of those deals?
Mark (26m 15s): Yeah. And so, since I'm in Dallas, it's easy, you know, two hour flight to a lot of parts of the country, you know,
Jesse (26m 22s): Level of landlord friendly parts of the country.
Mark (26m 26s): Right. And so we like, we like the sun belts, you know, my rule of thumb is generally about two hour flight now, would we, you know, we did look at stuff in the Midwest that was just beyond that, but it, it came scale. And so, you know, if we're looking at a portfolio that can support adding a team member, who's local, you know, then we have someone from our operating company in power living in that, in that town, you know, would I, I R or my COO still visit there.
Absolutely. But, you know, we wouldn't be kind of primary. We'd have someone from our network that would, you know, be full-time in that area.
Jesse (27m 14s): Yeah. That makes sense. So just want to shift gears a little bit here. So you, you are also an investor as a limited partner in real estate deals. I think there's, there's a lot of individuals out there. I know there's listeners, I've gotten emails before that they don't, you know, they're not going to be the general partner, they earn a good income, but they are maybe busy professional individuals from the LPs point of view, when you're looking at vetting, these deals, you know, what are a couple of the high level items that, you know, it will be the first thing that you look at when evaluating
Mark (27m 49s): Yeah. You know, especially the work I do with, with those, you know, it doesn't matter whether your LP, JV partner, what it comes down to, you know, knowing your operating partner. Yeah. So, you know, to the extent that you can do really great due diligence on your partner, you know, whether it's, you know, asking them a lot of questions, seeing a lot of case studies, you know, they, you need a great operating partner if you're an LP and you're looking to invest, you know, do you trust the sponsor?
And then, you know, so, so participating in the webinars, hearing all the work they did in the background. Yeah. I, I think that goes along with anything that you do, right. I'm one hand kind of going back to our earlier topic you were talking about. Yeah. I, I, I don't really invest anymore in the stock market. I know I should, to me, there's just, there's a lot of, there's a lot. I don't know. I'm not the expert there, someone to help manage that for me.
Sure. Can I invest in the ETF? Sure. But there's, there's a lot that I can't control. And so for me, I I'm much heavier invested in, in real estate. There's still stuff I can control, but I can control a lot more and I have inside information. Right. And so,
Jesse (29m 27s): And it's not illegal.
Mark (29m 29s): It's right. Exactly. Yeah. So I, you know, when I, when I think about investments, so you do you want to be diversified, right. And so, you know, if you're thinking about senior living as a diversification tool, it's great. He did need to do a lot of research. First, you should attend webinars events and, and, you know, understand kind of the background behind stuff.
Other than, you know, what we hear a lot in the media is, oh, a silver tsunami coming, you know, this big wave of, you know, the baby boomers are coming and it's true. But, you know, by the way, silver tsunami is a little derogatory for talking about our older friends here. But, you know, th the aging difference in the amount of caregivers, potential caregivers to older adults is going to be shrinking significantly here over the next three, four decades.
And so, you know, demographic wise, there's, there's compelling reasons to look at this as a different diversification tool, but do your homework first start to meet people in the industry?
Jesse (30m 44s): Yeah. We were, I was talking with a couple of colleagues yesterday about the diversification within the real estate domain, because there's this assumption that if you're just in real estate, that's just one bucket, but, you know, as you know, the hospitality, industrial office, multi Raz, and then those get chopped up even further. And I think there is a, you know, there's an argument that can be made that. Yeah, sure. It's you can diversify more in different asset classes, but it seems like your philosophy is very similar to mine. And that I know enough to know what I don't know.
So when somebody is talking about, you know, investing in a mine in, in the Midwest or Western Canada, I, I, you know, for me, unless, like you said, you have an expert in that area that you trust, I'm going to stick to what I know. I think the other nice thing with real estate is you seem like a level headed guy, mark, but for us a little bit more impulsive people, you know, we can't just press a button and sell, you know, seller assets stock. Market's definitely one of those things where every study I've seen on this topic shows that people get in and out of stocks way too much.
And their transaction costs are really what would start killing the returns.
Mark (31m 52s): And that's where technology is, is so great. And I feel like w what is it? Would it, it wouldn't be an NFT, would it where, you know, instead of having, you know, your, your LP investment going onto a piece of paper and sitting there until, you know, an event that, you know, you then, you know, sell your piece of paper when you can turn it into coin and then, you know, trade off that, you know, it might increase the transaction costs a little bit of, you know, getting it done.
But I think long-term all these escrows are going to turn into, you know, the, the word is escaping me right now, but, you know, going there's might be a part, we edit
Jesse (32m 46s): Sure. A we can edit something. I think I like, from my perspective, it's this aspect of, you know, starting to treat this stuff like credit cards, or, you know, this one, once you make it frictionless, I think for me is one of the, the, the challenges for depending on the individual. But yeah, I think, I think the aspect of real estate for me is that fact that there is a process. There's a, there's a kind of an implied count to 10 when you're thinking about being impulsive with real estate.
Mark (33m 17s): So actually, okay. So tokenize, that's what I said. Oh
Jesse (33m 20s): Yeah, absolutely.
Mark (33m 22s): So when we start to tokenize real estate, I think that's going to help free up this, you know, the ability to liquidate our investments much easier. So, yeah, that's, that's very interesting. And I know some groups that are starting to work on that as well,
Jesse (33m 41s): Right on, well, mark, we're coming up to the time here. There's a couple of questions we'd like to ask our guests before we wrap up, and then we can connect people with yourself and just basically give them a somewhere to go online. So if that works for you, I'll kick it off.
Mark (34m 0s): Yep. Sounds good.
Jesse (34m 2s): Awesome. What's something mark. And your career now that you know, that you, you wish you knew when you were first starting out, whether that's in senior living or just a real estate in general,
Mark (34m 15s): That's tough. I mean, certainly, especially in audit where I got to see all different types of days and, you know, and the inner workings of, of these big companies, small companies, I, I really appreciate the amount of diversity I've had with my background, but man, I also see folks who who've been in senior living this whole time and, you know, the level of that, the, the speed of how they've gotten to where they are today is, is great.
So I, I'm not going to say that I have any regrets. I think it's been a fun journey and I like where I'm at today, but it would be interesting to know if, if I had known about senior living at the time and, and focus on that from the beginning, you know, were how, how things be different. Oh, well,
Jesse (35m 7s): Yep. A couple words on mentorship, your view on mentorship and how important is, is something like that for somebody getting into our industry.
Mark (35m 17s): Oh man, it's, it's huge. And, you know, especially since I just wrapped up getting my masters at USC in senior living, you know, from that I learned about the vision center, which is a leadership development program that we're trying to get, get great people into the industry and giving them a pathway for growth. And so, you know, the, the program programs that we're doing at empower living are, are similar to that, right? We want to empower our employees or we call them team members to give them a path for growth.
And so we're, we're, we have, we're, we're working on partnerships with the local colleges, if there's gerontology programs, especially, you know, just ways that we can help develop them. So that'll help us attract top people, people who want to grow, who have growth mindset. And so we think, you know, that's just gonna continue to be a, something that is mutually beneficial. So, so it's very important.
Jesse (36m 23s): That's great. A couple of resources, one or two that you could recommend that could be a podcast. You're listening to a book you're reading a for listeners,
Mark (36m 33s): I would say senior living foresight is very interesting. And you know, Steven ran is this, he's been around the industry for awhile. He's got a lot of views and he, he challenges the industry. So it's very good. And he's got, you know, he's got a, a podcasts, there's a, what's it called and, you know, emails that come off.
And so it's, it's fun to listen to that senior housing news and McKnight's both have very good news. So you're staying up to date with that NIC NIC national investment center is, you know, my go-to for, you know, learning trends in the industry. And then I'm also a member of Asha American senior housing association, which is a little more on the advocacy side, but great data as well.
So, you know, those are combined, I think, you know, w what I do to keep up and yeah, I think those are good sources.
Jesse (37m 57s): Yeah. We'll put a, we'll put the links in the show notes. All right. My favorite question, first car, make and model.
Mark (38m 3s): I can't tell you that because that's like half of my security questions, but they don't make that car anymore.
Jesse (38m 9s): That's amazing. We've never gotten that one before, but, but I respect it.
Mark (38m 15s): I will say it was baby blue with blue Huck hubcaps and blue vinyl. And I inherited it from my grandma.
Jesse (38m 23s): Well, you're, you're, you're a classy guy, mark. I could tell that already mark, for, for people that want to learn more about yourself or senior living or the companies that, that you're associated with, we send them my guest today is Thank you so much for listening to working capital the real estate podcast.
I'm your host, Jesse, for galley. If you liked the episode, head on to iTunes and leave us a five star review and share it on social media, it really helps us out. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me on Instagram, Jesse for galley, F R a G a L E, have a good one take care.